First of all, when we refer to the ACN Scam we are not trying to say that what ACN does is illegal in any way. ACN the corporation is not a scam. When we refer to ‘The ACN Scam’ we are referring to the practices of certain independent representatives. In our opinion (based on limited experience) it seems that many ACN members have been “scammed” into believing that making money in ACN is more realistic than it actually is.
This article has nothing but good things to say about ACN the corporation. They provide great services at a great price and have utilized a unique means of sales and advertising. The article seeks only to discuss the strategies and activities of some of the reps within ACN (which often times are likely not in accordance with what ACN the corporation encourages or condones.)
The Basics of the ACN Scam
The scam works by convincing people that they have are going to make a lot of money in the telecom industry by selling a few video phones, satellite TV subscriptions, cell phones, landlines, etc and encouraging a few of their friends to do the same. It’s a simple concept and in theory is quite easy. Anyone can sell 3 services and we would argue that anyone could also find a friend to do the same. The issue, in our opinion, comes when you actually try to do it. There is very limited data on the success rates of ACN Independent Representatives. Most people are told from the start that less than one in 100 are successful in the business. Additionally, a recent study (see references) has shown that approximately 0.5% (less than 1 in 200) even make their initial $500 investment back. The problem: certain representatives are so good at convincing you, that everyone believes they will be the 1 out of 200 who actually makes money! Why?
The Giveaways that Suggest ACN is a Scam
Here are a few things that should suggest why ACN is not worth your time or your reputation:
- All the money is in the sign-up fees! We know they claim that the sign-up fee goes to registering your personal business, getting you a license with the FCC/CRTC etc… You can’t blame them for charging some sort of fee – there is obviously some setup work required and if people could join and quit with no penalty, then they would do it constantly and cost the company a fortune. Our guess is that the set-up process for an individual rep probably costs the company around $20 (based on the assumption that all they really have to do is add you to a database and send you a glossy package). So why charge $500? We suspect the obvious, to pay the bonuses! ACN sells it as “the bonuses will start you off, and the residual income will sustain you later in your career.” This seems impossible – we challenge anyone considering the ACN opportunity to ask their recruiter if the bonuses make up the majority of their income. We suspect this is generally the case, but would recommend you check for yourself – the exception to this rule would be when the individual has not yet earned a bonus – in which case their minimal income would be a product of service commissions. It seems to us that the bulk of the payouts are in the sign-up fees. If this is true, this meets the definition of a pyramid scheme, we know they convince you that their products make the business legitimate, indeed some income must come from phone/TV bills, but is that enough? A scam is a scam and just because the company pays out some money in actual service-bill revenue does not make it legitimate in our opinion.
From the ACN Integrity Site: - “As distinguished from the legitimate multilevel business opportunity advanced by ACN there are some companies who continue to engage in illegal pyramid sales. Simply defined, an illegal pyramid sales program occurs when persons are induced to purchase the right to sell a product by representations that they could regain their purchase price and also earn profits by subsequently selling the same right to sell to others. This certainly does not occur with the ACN Opportunity.”
- Are they kidding? Maybe a typo? by this definition ACN seems to us to clearly be a Pyramid Scheme
- The “Recruiting Process” is long, hard and strange. Sure a few people sign up on the spot, but the vast majority are fall under the “Some Wait” category. Once you are in, often times you become so wrapped up in things that you find it hard to imagine why anyone wouldn’t sign up – but think about it: If the opportunity were as good as you have convinced yourself it is, then most of your friends would sign up on the spot. This big disconnect between what you think of the opportunity and what the majority of the people you show it to think of it should make you nervous. We recommend everyone understand the concept of position marketing described here: Position Marketing
- If the statistics showed that most people make a lot of money in ACN, then the above point should not make you nervous – if it really was a good opportunity, then it wouldn’t matter if people took a little convincing before they saw the light. But the limited facts seem to suggest that almost nobody makes money in ACN. The average (mean) income of an ACN representative less than $2 a month (see references). The odds are HEAVILY in favor of you having to admit to all your friends that you were wrong in trying to convince them to join ACN.
- ACN has an entire website (ACN Integrity) devoted to proving that they are not a fraudulent company. The fact that this website even exists means the vast majority of people will probably assume that ACN is a scam. As I’m sure you’ve realized already, most people do assume it is a scam (at first glance.) This means that nearly everyone you attempt to recruit and almost every customer you seek to acquire is going to (at least initially) think that you are involved in an illegitimate business. This is not something you want to be associated with – not when the odds of you losing money are 100 times greater than the odds of you paying off your initial investment. Sure, maybe you can deal with people thinking you’re part of a scam, because deep down you ‘know’ you are going to get rich and ‘show them’. That seems to be what everyone thinks.. and yet so many are proven wrong.
- Obviously ACN is not illegal, or they would not exist! The strange part comes when they fall back on this proof of legality as an argument for why it is a good business. Why should the fact that it’s legal mean that it’s a good way for you to make money? Occasionally they seem to use the fact that it’s “almost illegal” as a way to convince you that there must be money in the business. They use quotes like “Direct TV is in on the Scam, Bell Canada is in on the Scam, in fact, you’re the only one who isn’t in on the Scam!” Does the fact that ACN might seem like a scam make it more likely you will get rich?
- To all those sold on the tax argument. No doubt your upline has told you that once you sign up for ACN everything will become a tax “write-off”. If all you’re in it for is the tax breaks, why don’t you register a business of your own for a tenth of the cost? Just because you’ll get a few tax deductions doesn’t mean you should spend $500. Legally you can only deduct expenses that were incurred as a result of the business. Therefore, the only way you are going to save money is by spending a lot more. The fact that tax deductions become available once you join ACN will only save you money if you plan to file a false tax return and deduct expenses that you already had prior to joining – not a good idea!
- Look at what you give up! Can anyone name an industry that requires you to be hated by so many people (see comments below) and still has such a low success rate? Success shouldn’t (and usually doesn’t) require you to hurt your personal relationships.
The Perceived Premise of ACN: Push the Favor – Trade your Dignity for Income
Even panhandlers can make a little money by begging on the streets to a bunch of random people who they have never met. If you were to elaborate on this concept and take a group of beggers who were more socially acceptable than bums, then have them beg to people they actually knew – not just for money, but for “a Favor” – you’re sure to see better results than the bums on the street. Even bums have documented success stories in which they have earned over $100,000 per year, yet none of us are running out to join that profession. As it turns out, the average (mean) panhandler makes over 400 times the annual salary of the ACN independent representative. Doesn’t this seem a little strange?
Honestly, ACN is a beautiful idea: It seems to us they have taken the collective ability of 1 million people to beg and pester their friends/family for a favor, and turned it into an enormous business. We admit, the begging power of this many independent representatives is huge – and hugely profitable. The issue is that none of the beggers make enough money – all of the cash floats to the top. It would appear the vast majority of independent reps have traded a portion of their dignity just to make their upline some money.
The Saddest Part of the ACN Scam
There are 2 parts to this: Firstly, the majority of reps don’t make money, and secondly, if you work hard enough at ACN you will indeed make money. This tricky situation allows ACN reps/recruiters to use terribly effective tactics to encourage their reps to keep on recruiting in order to make money. For example – say John tells Bob that all he has to do to be successful is keep on showing the business to more people and eventually he will be rich – the harder he works the more money he will make. Bob takes this recommendation to heart since he has been told the same thing most of his life – more work (hard or smart) equals more money. Bob shows the business to 300 people over the course of the year, 60 of them sign up, and 2 of them actually make their initial investment back. By this time Bob has earned a decent chunk of cash for himself along with some solid residual income. John was right – hard work actually paid off in ACN! Screw the haters, this is a legitimate business 🙂 … but what about the 58 people who signed up and lost money? Is hard work still a reasonable justification for profits when you have caused 58 people to part with their money by promising them great returns and delivering them nothing? Oh wait – but it’s alright because you gave everyone fair warning that making money in this business means hard work and they new from the get-go what the odds were of making money. Ya.. maybe you did explain this, but 5 minutes after that talk you halled them off to a rah rah pep rally and subjected them to 3 hours of watching people who claim to be rich walk accross stage spouting how great ACN is. Don’t these 2 actions (telling recruits that ACN is nearly impossible, then flashing riches and success stories in front of them..) seem a little contradictory? In any event, it would appear that anyone who actually “Made it” in ACN (through all that “hard work” promoted by the brain washed reps) only got there by screwing a sizable number of people out of their signup fee. ACN might make you rich if you work hard enough – but based on the data, it’s going to require that you make a lot of other people poor.
Jim Rohn probably said it best: Service to Many Leads to Greatness. We want to achieve greatness at the service to many – ACN seems to seek greatness at the expense of many.
Our Recommendation
If you’re about to spend $500 on ACN, at least think about your other alternatives and keep the statistics in mind. You can say with 99% confidence that you are more likely to make money putting the $500 into a savings account. But ACN, like all business ventures, is a risk – and the only way you make it big is by taking risks. We argue that there are better risks you can take. Think for a moment why you would say yes to ACN – probably not because of the odds, but because you know that you have all these people in your upline who are doing it already and are willing to help you. This is a highly emotional reason for starting a business, and you should probably put a little more emphasis on the facts.
Ask For Proof! Get some proof from your upline (at a level close to you, not proof from the top) that they are actually making money. A lot of independent reps pretend that ACN is making them rich, when really they are just as broke as everyone else. Be careful – find some proof that the people whose footsteps you’re about to follow in are actually doing what they claim to be. Too much of your time, money, and reputation are about to be put on the line for you to just take their word for it. Good Luck!
Feedback
Leave us some comments below. We are open to and uncritical of what anybody has to say. Do you think what we have said is right? Do you have a contradiction to our arguments that shows ACN really is a good way to make money?
References:
- Graser D. Panhandling for change in Canadian law. J Law Soc Policy 2000;15:45-91.
- ACN Integrity – http://www.acnintegrity.com/nopyramidscheme.html
- Stackhouse J. Seven days on the street [series]. Globe and Mail [Toronto] 1999 Dec 18,20,21.
- ACN Income study – http://bindone.org/acn-income-study
- MLM-TheTruth: Shocking MLM Stats – http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/ShockingMLMstats
Disclaimer
As always firstsearchblue.com makes no guarantee as to the authenticity of the facts, arguments, comments or statements presented in the articles/posts on the site. We have a collection of over 20 writers (plus many guest authors) and keeping track of exactly who writes what is not done. That said, the articles and posts of this website are taken largely from personal experience and are more often then not very trustworthy sources of information – whether you choose to trust them or not is entirely up to your own judgment.
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Hi,
On the ACN promotional DVDs (for the US and Canada anyways) they state the the average ACTIVE ACN representative made over $500 per year. Does anyone have any information on this? Why do they specify active, what are the criteria for being active?
thanks, Tom
$500 per year?! I make more than that a month with my own company! And it's NOT an MLM! It's a REAL business!
lol... if you follow the system you are provided with, You will earn your $499 + back in the first week.. this is a joke statement, a "real" business? so you have overhead, employees, inventory.. cudos to you.. although these things are not needed to operate a "real" business.
Active: "Made Some Money and Acquired at least 1 New Customer"
I find this article completely irresponsible and littered with ignorance and bad research. You want to know why ACN has an a website on their integrity? First of all, they are a billion dollar worldwide telecommunications company and they should have a site on their practices. Secondly and sadly, not to mention all of the absolute careless and uneducated blogs and articles about network marketing. Warren Buffet, one of the planets wealthiest and certainly most conservative investors, purchased several multi-level marketing companies back in 2002. Like in any small business we all take risks and it requires complete commitment, work ethic and hard work. The $499 investment for an opportunity geared to the entrepreneurial minded folk, ACN is about as solid as it gets. Full disclosure here, I have doing ACN for a couple of months and have only been encouraged and helped to create a successful part-time spare-time business. I've not seen most of what this blog is stating. I am very excited about what it has to offer. I'm hooked and even more excited to share this and help other people become successful. This company has an A+ rating with the BBB and is full of integrity.
Mark, you're an idiot. March on smartly and take your place at the bottom of the pyramid.
He's an idiot because you don't agree with him? What do you care if he likes ACN?
Why doesn't AT&T have a site about their integrity like that? They are a worldwide telecommunications company!
That's because they have PROVEN integrity for over 100 years you moron.
Warren Buffet didn't pay $500 to become a rep. He bought the whole company because he knows they make money, even though the individual reps don't.
Mark keep drinking the koolaid. I checked the BBB on ACN. The only reason they have an A+ rating is because they have so far resolved much of the complaints from customers. And they themselves are not a telecommunications company as they lead you to believe. They resell services from real telecom companies like Verizon, AT&T, Sprint etc.
Hi there Mark, I think we might have been a little harsh with this article. Really all we would like to draw attention to is the fact that people are not presented with the proper statistics when they are joining ACN. I think if we surveyed some ACN reps 1 to 2 years after signing up, the majority would say that things didn't turn out as well as they had expected. It may have been naive for them to expect success without significant work, but none the less, the majority would feel as if they had been slighted or tricked.
The system is such that you can earn a lot of money just by having people sign up below you and get their five points. Of course long term residual income will come only by assisting and encouraging your team, but that can be tough when they are unmotivated (which, as I'm sure you have seen, often becomes the case.) Perhaps a change to the income structure might be beneficial to those closer to the bottom.
It is also unfortunate that the only income stats published by the company refer only to members who have made money and acquired 1 new customer in a given year. These are good stats to go by for members who are currently active, but they could be improved for people contemplating joining. The big issue we find with the business is that not enough new reps make money. A stat that leaves out all reps who fall into the 'non-money-making' category is simply not effective (for the purpose at hand.)
Maybe we are incorrect in thinking that this type of stat would really help limit the number of people who feel ripped-off as a result of joining ACN. In any event, we feel that something should be done to help ensure that peoples' expectations and their actual results are more in-line with one another.
Please keep us posted on how things go for you in the business. All the best!
This is an interesting response since the original article came off harsh and created the feedback that is listed above. I have been in ACN for almost 6 months and haven't received a dime! HOWEVER, two weeks after signing up my mother passed away and I was unable to continue the business I didn't get the bonus which would have been ($1400) back had I got 2 reps to join and added on at least 8 customers. To me this was a feasible short-term goal and an easy way to get my investment back. But for me that didn't happen and almost 5 and a half months later. I'm just getting back in the business and starting over. It doesn't take a rocket science to see that those at the top will continue to get richer due to people at the bottom. This sounds like my last employer who worked less and got paid more, while I worked my butt off for pennies (basically) but for me I enjoyed the work I was doing. And this is how I feel about ACN, if you don't enjoy what you are doing you should not be doing ACN there are risk in every business, upline, downline, etc. And if you can't at the end of the day say "If I make it to the top, Great!, If not at least I enjoy what I do." You are missing the point to life's happiness. It's not only about the money! but my peace of mind and unlike the comments I've been reading I don't believe I'm scamming poor people, because I'm at the bottom asking other people at the bottom if I can help save them some money? Or asking those who can afford the $500 if they would want to do this business with me? You can call me naive, I call myself FREE, of the opinions and judgments of others and enjoying building my ACN business. Also, my upline sponsor continued to encourage me to get the business going she was honest on how it would help her and honest on how it would help me. This was after my 30 day window of success. I'm just glad I can see both good and bad of ACN and I look forward in witnessing what I'll be able to do in this business by the hard work I plan to put into it. I can only be responsible for me and my actions before I say this didn't work, but believe me it will be after giving 100%.
-Portland, Oregon ACN Rep
Your comments/article are Irresponsible, Careless. You have the audacity to ask Mark to 'keep you posted....' and 'All the best!' After reading all this mud slinging, insults, foul language, garbage, etc. from almost ALL of you on both sides....with the exception a few, I want to say this...
to ACN Reps: go to training, learn from the experts in the fields of business, marketing, professional development, personal management DON'T BE DESPERATE and RECRUIT just anyone into your business. You need to turn people away if they can't commit to the rigors of Network Marketing and Personal Growth and if you can't commit to being a true blue business mentor - lower the averages of amatuers, wanna be's, and posers - higher the average of successful professionals in this field of free enterprise.
to all Others: Really??? Why don't you ALL post your success stories in life so the rest of us can learn from you. Better yet why don't you mentor, lead and show us all how you did it so we can have what you have, drive what you drive, live where you live, and do what you do. By the way, please be sure to site all references to back up YOUR findings, research, and due dilligence on ACN, just for the record.
Money trick, People. Get a real job, and open up your own business with your own name. Not ACN I hope.
Yeah Peps... open your own business and make sure you are NOT spending more than $499.00. Let me see Advertising alone will probably cost at least 10,000/year, and how about the workers comp.,Insurance, licenses, your office building? ha! ha! Dont be ignorant !
I enroll 15 to 20 new representatives into my ACN business per month.
Out of those, only 2-3 (roughly 10%) actually do what it takes to make it in this business. The numbers do not lie, when you get your own planet you can change it around if you like.
The rest, I make sure they get their investment back (ACN has a 10-day cancellation policy) if they sit on their asses within the first 9 days.
They do have to send in a letter though. In the letter, I ask them to include this:
'ACN works, I just didn't work ACN.'
Funny how people think they can do more research and be more credible than Donald Trump and his team of attorneys.
The 'public' internet is the bathroom wall ladies and gents. Before you say no, make sure you know what you're saying no to.
Stay mediocre.
How sad...this is another organization that prays on the elderly. This is at least the fourth get rich sceam my 75 year old father has gotten himself into.
Then you should call ACN customer support and ask what can you do to help your 75 year old father get his money back. Also did you even support your Dad in this at all? Before you call something a scam, you should look into the company and ask what you can do to help. I think its great that you father has the insight and wisdom to still try at his age. You'd think that by now he would be so jaded such as you. I hope you look at him and see how hope still lives in him and you get some of that and learn from him and move forward.
Another Scumbag... Did you actually just reference Donald Trump as if he was someone who adds credibility to your organization? He's just a paid puppet who is selling his name to the highest bidder. He would back up the Taliban if they paid him enough.
The bottom line is people like you are liars who are attracting a vulnerable consumer into buying your bullshit dream of becoming a superstar.
Let me ask you this. If ACN is truly a credible organization then why is more emphasis put on gaining new recruits than actually selling the "state of the art" (what a joke) telecom products it's originally supposed to? You're a fucking jackass buddy... go to hell.
Vanessa
Well said Vanessa. This "company" just smells of a pyramid scheme that entices dimwits like the one a little further up into sending them $500 in return for "their own business". What a joke. At best you're nothing more than a salesman, but more than likely you're just a sucker contributing to fraudulent scheme masquerading as a legitimate company.
BP's is either one of the soul-less suits behind this scheme or someone who's just come from one of those seminars (I hate that word btw) designed to pump up the morale of the idiots who thought they bought a business for $500 and make them think everyone who didn't get suckered into it or got out is just a loser who didn't try hard enough.
The only people who are definitely making any money off of this are the handful at the very top. I'm sure they're rolling around in exotic cars somewhere south California wearing stupid big sunglasses and laughing all the way to the bank.
Vanessa, how is he a jackass? and Epoch below, some ACN reps are dimwits? I personally know 4 doctors that are in this, I have a Bach in Computer Science (don't even get me started on that business, my friends still in that industry make less than cops and have no OT).
There are 3 types of people:
1. Will watch it happen...
2. Will MAKE it happen...
3. Will say...What happened?
I'm deeply sorry if you got involved in this business and it didn't work for you. Like I said, I teach RESPONSIBILITY and ACCOUNTABILITY for each partner you SPONSOR into this businss and the worst case scenario is that you make back your investment and have a $20-30 residual check every month.
I know I spout a lot of rhetoric, but seriously, no one is trolling on you and if you notice, most of us who are in the Pro column are very professional about it, while you spout obscenities.
That makes sense, way to get your point across.
Finally, you may or may not be religous, but another ACN partner (not one of mine, didn't know they were in the business until this happened), donated $5000 to our church to help out needy unemployed families. Unfortunately, I don't have those resources...yet.
4 Doctors? Get out of town! A doctor must be bright in all walks of life? I know 5 doctors in Toronto that just got busted for pedophelia. your point is what?
If the doctor is making money at ACN, he can't be that stupid.
I'm frankly shocked at the number of people discussing this topic who loop back to pedophilia.
When discussing the reputability of a business you should critically analyse the prjected business model, the outlay and potential income, the support involved in or provided by the business, and back the findings up with fact and not biased oppinions.
The relevence of sex offenses or racism or the assult on religious bodies elludes me.
As too does the unintelligable profanities utilised by those incabable of elloquently expressing their thoughts.
Also of what significance of highlighting a persons profession? and linking it to a story of a known criminal who was once in the same proffession?.. You could choose any employment, career, proffession, where there have been vulgar human beings who have commited terrible offenses, this is evident in all aspects of human culture. This does not mean that all people engaged in that proffession are crooks.
One police officer who breaks the law does not make all police officers unsafe nor one violent caucasian make all caucasians a "violent race"
Now this is all common place knowledge and my purpose for stating the obvious is because reading this discussion (though my oppinion is irrelevant) i have merely find it an interesting observation of human behaviour that so many have resulted childishly to simple name calling swearing and raising completely unrelated themes that have no basis or relevence to the topic being examined. Not that i really expected an objective inteligent discussion on a topic that so many seem to find so emotive and stimulating.
By all means to both parties engaging in this forum, enjoy the debate and perhaps consider that differing beliefs and oppinions don't need to be taken as personal affronts to your own beliefs. And thus perhaps a level of detatchment could be of benefit especial by those most distressed by what is being shared.
To all take care and may you find resolution within yourself and be content with whatever decision you have made for yourself and perhaps even respect the decision of others for their journey is their own and either path shall lead to a destination :)
I'm gonna call you out right now and say your lying about every figure you just posted. By the way, you sound like a puppet. You are the epitome of an ACN rep, you cant think for yourself so you speak through some other higher up idiot. "Writing on the bathroom walls" "Donald Trump and his team of attorneys". Keep living a lie, I hope you feel good about yourself...
so you are making ACN aprox. 8k per month, do you know where that goes ? In a real company or sales dept , 30% - 50% is normal without any salary . Do they kick you back 4k per month? If so that's a good deal , if not , someone is eating prime rib and someone is eating flank steak .
30-50%? In some industries that might be true, but not all. I personally know of sales reps in perfectly reputable companies that sell million dollar products. I guarantee you that they are not making 500k in commissions.
How sad is this? Some people are quittters in life and will find any excuse to validate that they quit. It's not ACN, Its you! ACN is not part of the Easy Button. It takes work just like anything else. I just went to the National Convention in Ohio a few weeks ago. The co-founders are so real and honest. They have integrity coming out of their pores! I am honored to be part of a family team that all we all have a future in common. What are you doing for a plan B in life? We should all be thinking about this now with todays news. If one could buy a business for $500 and get a bonus that would give you your money back like I did within 30 days? Grab your wrist and check for a pulse! ACN is the real deal. Don't let people steal your dreams! Go big and reach for the stars!
Dude, is your shit pushed so far up your fucking ass it's coming out of your mouth? People like you are scum... preying on other people's dreams of becoming successful. You should be shot in the head.
This Slut is so pissed!!! lol why dont you spread those cheddar legs so more you walking std!!
these things are all shit. get a real job. stop sending me philosophies on life happiness and mental positivity so only to try and sucker me in to making you profit. sad, and a weak fallback for other failed opportunities. you'll agree like all my friends who tried this shit did in, oh, i'd say a year, when you realize you've gone nowhere...
Wow. I see how "education" educated you. What university do you teach at so I can make sure my kids don't go there. Its sad that anybody as negative as you are can go out there get a " masters degree" to wave around and teach kids to be robots and become mindless corporate workers.
And its sad to see that your education didn't teach you to be a profesional teacher and learn not to use profanity when trying to express yourself.. You are giving real teachers a bad name..
at least I can spell. Education gave me that much. I teach at U of T. And, truly, I'm not negative: I'm sick of idiots trying to convince me that their so-called positivistic 'prophecies' are not in vain and have nothing to do with suckering me into some bullshit pyramid scam. Talk about robots. And for the record I teach psychology so I have no business nor desire training people to become 'mindless' corporate workers. Get your facts straight you clown. I am standing up for potential suckers everywhere- I'm going to go with the notion that it's actually quite contrary to your idea of giving teachers a bad name. One thing I do teach is to stay away from junk programs like ACN. Have a nice day cowboy.
It is sad that you do not have God in your life. It must be very lonely. If you did you would not be so negative and hateful.
you're such a pussy TJ
GOD? What does god have to do with ACN
You may spell the words correctly, but go back and read your post. Punctuation and grammar go along way in getting your point across.
a long
After reading your comments, I've come to realize you have had some experiences in your life in which you failed yourself. If 60 days person is doing well in a business where she is helping people save money on bills they pay anyway, why are you so negative about that???
Everything we do for a living is marketing a product, service, or ourself. ACN offers services we pay for anyways. Your on your internet right now, and someone is making money off you, dipshit. It's probably 60 days in. So you talk about "sucker me into making you profit", someone already is, but would you rather have a huge company make money off you? Or would you rather have your friend or family member? But I can tell you something, it's not you making money on your bills. It's not like ACN is selling or marketing magical energy drinks that make you smarter. But if they did you should order a case.
My wife has a masters and I dropped out after 2yrs. I make twice as much money without a degree. Statistics show that over 90% of millionaires in the US haven't completed 2yrs of college. More people drop out of college than drop out of ACN. The difference is college drop outs don't blame the college. We are always quick to blame someone else other than ourselves for failure. Stop looking at your failed experiences and let others follow their dreams and desires.
Dipshit....brrrr. I'd rather do something I love as opposed to relying on 'helping' people help me. Here we go with the millionaire stats again. You know, the whole point has been missed, but that's predictable. If you think money is the key to happiness good luck to you. Save your stats; I couldn't care less what ratio of millionaires have degreees. Go to sleep with your stats and feel good about your ACN experience- I bet it's always been your dream.
Do you teach behavioral therapy? Because you need to learn how to calm down. Believe it or not, people do make money at this. And the only ones who are suckers are those who don't honestly evaluate a business opportunity & whether or not it is a good fit for them. And that is true for ANY business opportunity, MLM or not.
You are mistaken John if you think 90% of millionaires having less than 2 years of college somehow means its a good idea to not go to college. If you want to throw out statistics :
-There are over 3 billion people in the United States, only 4.7 million are millionaires. Your chances of becoming a millionaire are incredibly small and you are more than likely never going to become a millionaire, especially by selling ACN products and services, only those at the tip-top (i.e. the original creators of this program) are millionaires due to residuals. You are more than likely, statistically, to be an ordinary average American citizen, so lets look at the wages you will earn.
- Let's look at the median yearly income of the average America (taken by the U.S. Department of Labor) :
No college : $30,400
Bachelors : $52,200
Masters : $62,300
PhD or equivalent degrees : $89,400 - $109,600
In this case, if ACN fails or goes under (which is possible, don't buy the hype that this is some guaranteed lifetime job, the technology will be outdated within 10 years, guaranteed), you are looking at your wife earning more than $30,000 than you, PER YEAR!
It is never a bad decision to earn a college degree of some sort as it drastically increases your pay grade. Don't fail yourself by refusing to become educated.
Just one comment to Tom: 308 million people in the U.S., just came from the Census they took. Safe bet that if I did a bit of research, I'd find out that your facts were pulled from a box of Fruit Loops.
way to be resilient and never give up, your just like my syphilis.
You and your friends are obviously people who want it handed to them. News Flash.................I'm sure your still paying on your Master Degree and you will be for a VERY LONG TIME! Good Luck with that, Mr. Teacher. I wouldn't want your negative Nelli attitude teaching people I love and care about! Maybe you should have gone to Yale or Harvard where they teach MLM! Maybe you would have learned something!
Thanks for the reply traci. Truth is, I was funded by the government for 22K a year over 4 years. In fact, I have residual in the bank at the moment. Once again, with you clones it's all about money and false information. I'll tell you what I told CR- get your facts straight before making idiotic assumptions. :)
and there u go again the government funded successful teacher???? are u in welfare too??? opps dont answer we know you are... hahaha!
what? yes, didn't you hear? teachers are on welfare in Ontario. Dumbass.
"get your facts straight before making idiotic assumptions. :)"
LOL, maybe u should take your own advice.
Like what 'zee'? I have my personal experiences with ACN reps to go by. Those are realities, my friend, not assumptions at all. Labelling anyone against ACN and other scams as 'bad apples', lazy, or inefficient is, of course, to assume. So to you as well, learn what words actually mean before firing them off in conversation.
And labeling everyone who is for ACN as stupid is to assume. And we all know what happens when you assume things . . .
Like you do?
And what do I want handed to me? 7 years of University, 4 of which I paid for every September working 2 jobs? Tell me what I want handed to me again.
btw,. did you go to yale or harvard? I will wager thats a no. I doubt anyone goes to harvard to study to work for ACN. get a fuckin grip lady. Those you love and care about? How long will they reciprocate once youre through scamming them?
You think they are teaching us about MLM so that we can go sign up for it? You've been listening to the BS of your upline too much.. hahaha, at our business school (Cornell) they did mention MLM in two courses, but not because they were training us to go sign up for it.. they basically just wanted to teach us how MLM works - they actually spent more time on the scam filled history of the industry than they did talking about it as a viable business model.
Next time an RVP gets on stage and brings up the fact that they teach MLM at Harvard, tell him to sit down and stop conning people into a sketchy business by lying about what they are teaching at University...
Wow Frank, you sound like your one miserable and unhappy person.
very wrong my friend. I love my job and my life. I only came on here to discover what I suspected already: that this ACN thing is pure bullshit. My aim was to get the point across to people like you that I am not interested in this stupid endeavor. You can't even go to a coffee shop anymore without ACN and Primerica vultures circling around. once again, my life is quite fulfilling; in fact, it would be slightly more so if drones like ACN reps got on with it and left the populace alone.
Kudos Frank. Hello all. I took a pay cut last year to represent people in a Trade Union after several years of University and a lucrative job. Money is not everything. At some point you have to look at what you have done in life and think "would my children be proud of HOW I earned my living?"
Hard work is the only real way to be successful in life. People who scam see only the dollars, not the pride of having advanced society and our families and our world through real accomplishment. I have friends trying to sign my wife and I up with ACN and we keep saying no, only to have them try to sign us to a five year contract for our services that we already buy. I still fail to see how a middleman can save me money on something that I already pay for, by locking me in for five years, so they make money on what ... my signature? Then do nothing for the money? How can anyone be proud of that?
For all those who plug ACN, please, do what you like, but don't try to sell me something that can't be backed by stats, and then on the other hand call people schmucks for believing in "traditional" earnings. Those traditional earnings produced nearly all the wealth that ACN distributes (mainly upward) Don't forget what you are selling are services that people have already worked hard to deliver, from companies who actually do the work, who maintain the networks and create the products. If you are buying into something like ACN you are working within their framework and by their rules, rather than getting your degree, or certifications for skills, or hell ... not getting your degree, and working somewhere building or doing something. At ACN you are a leach on an existing system, a parasite, and at some point it will come to an end, and the only people who really profit are those who disappear when the Feds get involved with charges.
ACN'ers talk about a Plan B. I have a plan B. So do my 12,000 union brothers and sisters. It is called a Pension plan, which is protected by law and has over $5 an hour plugging into it for every hour I work. It is invested, and gives an additional 8-15% a year. If you want to retire early, comfortably, and with your honor in tact, do something useful. Build things. Transport people. Get obscure skills and find out who will pay for them. Give value back to this world.
Reality is: ACN promises money for nothing. Maybe even chicks for free, given the video I saw, but it does not ever replace a job. People now are so caught up in not actually WORKING that they believe hype about residual income. What do I believe? I believe I will work another five years, build my next home in the country, and retire on the $100K plus I made by buying, fixing up, and selling homes, which I started five years ago. I put in a whole lot of elbow grease, alienated nobody in the process, and added real value to things that were beneficial to someone else's life.
Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day. Teach a man to hoodwink someone else into fishing and giving over the fish, and he will eat for as long as the fisherman is an idiot.
Traci: Harvard and Yale don't teach people about any MLM as an endorsement, but about how they work, much as the UofT school of business teaches about traditional business models, MLMs, and many other money making schemes.
"More people drop out of college than out of ACN?" Stats please? Wouldn't it be better to compare how many people have happy productive lives making money traditionally vs. those who actually make a living at ACN without compromising their integrity? Or maybe it would be better to show that the average ACN person makes less than $2 a month residually.
Very eloquent, but I would like to make a few points..
First, would that 5 year contract have saved you any money? I agree with your statement that your children should be proud of you earn your money, and as ACN rep, I would never offer a service to anyone, contract or not, that did not benefit them in some way. Believe it or not some of us are not in this business to hoodwink our friends and family, but to earn some money while helping our friends and family. And we work honestly and ethically, which may or may not be the case for your friend.
ACN does not offer money for nothing. The offer the opportunity to make money IF you are willing and able to work for it. Like any business, it requires hard work and drive to be successful. This business is not for anyone, and the truly successful reps may show the opportunity to everyone they know, but they only sign up the ones who appear to be excited and driven. While there will still be some who will not succeed, trying to recruit the right people is key to long term success. Rep who go out and try to recruit everyone they meet will not be as successful in the long run because their recruits will not succeed, and no matter which part of the compensation plan you look at, no money is made until customers are signed up for services.
If you still fail to see how a middleman can save you money, ask yourself this: Why do stores and independent reps sell cell phones for wireless carriers? They don't do it for free and they don't charge any more that the carriers. Why would the carrier pay someone else to sell their cell phones when they make more money by selling the phones themselves? The answer is easy, marketing costs. When a big box store like Best Buy sells a cell phone for AT&T, they pay for all of the advertising. The money AT&T saves in marketing allows them to pay the third party vendors. ACN does the same thing with most of the services they offer (the video phone is their own). They contract with the provider to market their products for a cut of the proceeds, part of which are passed on to the reps. With cell phones it tends to be a cheaper handset purchase price, with other services it is a discount on the monthly charges. As ACN has a 90% customer retention rate, as opposed to the less than 50% retention average the provider maintains on its own, it is a beneficial relationship.
As to what the successful people would do if ACN closed it's doors and the revenue went away, if they are smart, they have invested some of that money along the way in an IRA or other long term investment for their future. Not everyone gets a cushy pension from their employer or union. I am glad you do, but some of us are not so lucky. I am glad you found a "plan B" that works for you.
MLM & direct selling has been a successful business model for decades. Just look at Amway, Tupperware, Mary Kay, etc. All of these companies reward you for recruiting others who will sell their products. The difference between MLM and a pyramid scheme is that MLM does not reward you until you build a customer base, whereas a pyramid scheme rewards you when you sign someone new up.
None of us care whether YOU are interested. Why do you care if others are?
and to reply to 'some people are quitters in life and will find any excuse to validate that they quit'...i did quit this horseshit and went to get a masters degree, now teach at a university and don't have to worry about scamming other people into thinking the 1. wealth comes from becoming a false messiah and 2. that anyone can do it if they 'persevere'. I have no regrets. Paychecks are constant and stable. Life is more interesting when you do what you want to do, and don't pretend that saving people save 20% on effin phone bills is the be all and end all of a happy, productive life.
The short and simple of it is this:
1) ACN is a pyramid scheme, which in turn is a scam or ripoff
2) They promote recruiting others instead of their products or services
3) Of all you people (suckers) involved, less than 1% will make their money back
4) Donald Trump is an idiot (granted, a rich one)
5) You will lose friends, family, and possibly your dog will hate you
6) ACN spends big $$ on their PR to try and maintain a legitimate cover
Here's some free advice. Take the $500 and invest it into a mutual fund, enough said.
AMEN! I am the worst person for selling; however, while I am working hard to get my business customers established, and the money to start coming in, I am rewarded with the knowledge that the customers I do have are saving money BECAUSE of me and ACN. The rewards are endless. Remember this, "God helps those who help themselves!" In my case, helping others save money on the bills they pay every month anyway, is my reward. The bonus will come later when my business builds. Hard? You bet! But the rewards are endless.
God Bless!
haha, you are awesome. I wish more of the reps in my downline bought in as hard as you! You have really let us brain wash you nicely ;) You're a little bit too eager, careful not to be one of those crazy advocates who gives our gig a bad name.
And no need make things over-religious, is this a business or a cult?
Keep up the motivation!
i use plan b so that if i get carried away my girl wont get pregnant, are you saying acns miracle company can stop pregnancy, hell ya im in this company sounds absolutly perfect for a college kid like me.
So how many of the people slamming this article here have actually made any significant financial gains from ACN? From reading their responses I'm getting the impression that they haven't.
Anyone who actually made money would not be making posts that rain hail and lightning on an article that dares attack their chosen method of business but would instead offer to demonstrated why the article was incorrect and could back up their statements with information. (And since people who actually know how to make a lot of money rarely ever disclose how exactly that is done, that's not going to happen)
All we've gotten thus far from Mark and company was emotionally charged drivel.
Absolutely right Epoch,
Some successful people do share information on how they became successful. Unfortunately the vast majority of it is watered down principles such as "hard work". Not exactly the tips new reps are looking for.
It is no coincedence that most MLM companies stress the importance of working on 'yourself' first - then your business. This is because most people don't have the required skills to be successful in direct selling. Some of the prerequisites are: Sales, marketing, advertising (yes, that's a different skill than marketing) , personal appearance/attire (dress for success), and so on. I teach these tennants and more to all of my new reps. This article does an excellent job of highlighting the typical "rah rah" song and dance that most MLM companies utilitize to distract from the huge commitment that is actually required to make any tangible returns.
It is also no accident that the 'up-line' people you meet typically lose interest in you as a 'rep' once your probation period is over. That's because they can't earn any more 'fast-start' commissions from you. Instead of building your residual wealth, they go on to the next guy that's going to earn them a $200 bonus that month.
To get a return on any monies we put forward takes a certain amount of time. I have not heard the term "business plan" in any of the blogs today. For any one going into ACN, I hope that they put together a Business Plan before starting and for those people who have not heard of the phrase, stop now and go back and take a business course. No business is get rich quick thing.
Scenario I teach my Partners...
If you get one partner per month, is that HARD WORK?
If you get 2 Customer Services/month is that HARD WORK?
If you were to follow those two examples as above, AND TEACH each of the partners you get to do the EXACT same thing by the end of your first year your residual would be above $400/mo and you'd have bonuses of around $2k/mo, and if everyone is on the same page, it would NEVER GO DOWN. Don't get me wrong, there are quitters in every bunch, which is one reason I try not to talk about GIANT residuals and bonuses.
I run a successful confectionery company and have been an entrepreneur for over 20 years. Not everyone is cut out for the long hours it takes to start a business from scratch. The first 3 years is tough, and usually require 10 - 12 hour days, 6 days a week. My original investment in my confectionery company was $300k, and there was a significant risk involved. When my wife brought up the ACN concept I was initially sceptacle of the entire idea. I'd never wanted to get involved with a MLM type company, and was always put off by AMWAY, AVON, etc. My wife probably puts in a maximum of 12 hours per week, and myself about 6 hours. It took my wife 6 months to start earning a little over $100.00 per month on residue income, and it has increased steadily since. My point here is that starting your own business is not for everyone, and if we worked at ACN 60 - 70 hours per week, like my other start ups, then our income would be even greater. The financial risk of starting a traditional company is much, much greater than $500.00, and is usually what stops people from living out their dream. I bet the majority of people that have failed with ACN would admit to "not really working that hard at it". As a sales person you have to get used to hearing the word "No thanks" and move on.
Regards,
Kevin Crux
Toronto, Ontario
Kevin Thank you for putting this into perspective. Bottom line is if $500 is going to keep food off your table and eliminate the roof over your head, you should not take the "risk" and invest that money into a biz that has all its tools and marketing material, training, customer support (for just your customers who purchase services through you) included in that one time investment. Also be aware that you only pay an additional $29.99 a month if you want the website. That's it. You don't need the website since ACN has one. Just make sure your customer has your ID number so you can get the credit for the sale.
On another note...Where are you going to find a biz where the product is cheaper through you than through the retailer? Granted it may only be $5 per month for the 1st 12 months of service cheaper with some of the services but with the economy today that is a big savings for some customers. And its Big Name Brand services they are using anyway so why not redirect it to someone who is starting up and who is looking for the American Dream. That is what this country was built on.. Indiviual entruepranuers (See even someone who can't spell can still work hard and be sucessful..lol) So yes think about what that $500 really means to you and what it can do for you right now or for your future...
people need to look at this critically and keep their naiveté in check. the videophone is not a good product. why would anyone buy one unless everyone else they know and call already had one too? also, why would anyone need videophone when webcams are cheap and skype is free???
furthermore, all it initially boils down to for a 'rep' is that they paid 500 and their job is to get other people to pay 500 dollars.
the scam is incredibly intricate, but makes perfect sense once you realize that all most people are trying to do is to get others to pay 500 dollars, then once they pay 500 they are offered to "be their own customers" and their telecom. bills are taken over by ACN at a reduced rate, so your phone bill becomes an ACN bill. it may be less than what you are paying with, say, at&t, but you're STILL PAYING ACN EACH MONTH! they pay your phone bill, but that's just overhead cost to the company because they pay the at&t bill all at once for each of the "reps" at a MUCH lower price than each individual would have paid. therefore, they make a profit because the cost of paying each person's bill is much lower than the money that each "rep" is paying THEM (acn) each month.
any company can make a website on which they sell phones and services at a reduced rate because they buy in bulk at a reduced price per phone and give a markup that's less than, say at&t's would be. But the website and selling phones is just a front that really means nothing to the company except a moderate profit which is dwarfed by the money they make from people paying 500 dollars and THEN selling themselves the reduced service for the monthly bill and signing it over to acn who will pay it for cheaper than they are charging said "rep."
to surmise, it seems that it is the 'reps' themselves who are being swindled into paying first 500 dollars to ACN, then paying MORE money each month to the company under the guise of a telecom. bill. ACN is not scamming anyone except for their own 'reps.'
maybe some people make money form this... more power to them i suppose. i just hope they can continue with the delusion and don't realize they have jeopardized their personal reputation and their ethical standing.
people just need to THINK CRITICALLY about the information, im just some guy who went through one presentation and was able to see through the scam thoroughly enough, and these are but a few of the bright red flags which reveal the holes in the company. these are just what i thought of it all and if im wrong, please demonstrate exactly how by presenting real information.
I was presented material and an ivitation to attend an ACN meeting and saw the exact same thing as you did. Please people use your common sense and judgment and simply do the math the numbers dont lie. Stay clear if you dont know what your getting into. Takes money time and sales ability to qualify and make any money at all.
"Takes money time and sales ability to qualify and make any money at all."
Doesn't any self owned job take money and time to be successful in?
Interesting...takes time and money to make money eh? I'm pretty sure the same could be said of starting up any business. Its not a pay $500 dollars and you'll be rich tomorrow business, they tell you it will require some of your time to "work at it to make money at it. correct me if iI'm wrong but you trade your time for money every day you go to work. And everyone has the so called sales abilty your talking about, its called word of mouth advertising "hey go check out this movie", "go eat at this restaraunt". Whats the difference in saying I might be able to save you some money on your hydro bill or your phone bill? The reason not many people make much money if any doing these types of businesses is because lazy people get in and hope for instant rewards which in turn affects the averages negatively, thusly resulting in the "only 1 in 100 make any money at it" statement. And in regards to a pyramid what do you all think you work for if you don't own your own business? Uh the guy at the top makes all the money and I get screwed, sounds like any labourer working for a boss. Let me guess what about the $500 dollars you have to pay to join? right? Sorry but do they just hand out McDonalds for free these days? This company has lawyers, buildings, support staff that all has to be paid for, so to make an initial investment for that infrastructure to all be at your disposal its a substantilally small investment.
wow...i think incognito just said it the way it really is.
You only went to ONE presentation and you were able to see it through??? Such cognitive abilities you have...
"telecom. bills are taken over by ACN at a reduced rate, so your phone bill becomes an ACN bill. it may be less than what you are paying with, say, at&t, but you're STILL PAYING ACN EACH MONTH! they pay your phone bill, but that's just overhead cost to the company because they pay the at&t bill all at once for each of the "reps" at a MUCH lower price than each individual would have paid. therefore, they make a profit because the cost of paying each person's bill is much lower than the money that each "rep" is paying THEM (acn) each month."
Yeah, that's such a scam, you save money on your landline because your provider buys the service in bulk. And you make a small residual in the process. You are aware that they sell other service and have many customers who are not reps who are perfectly happy with their lower phone bills aren't you.